Well, if it weren't for the insane DRM, you wouldn't need to buy an OEM PC to use CableCard!

Perosnally, I wouldn't say I've lost entusiasm for WMC so much as I don't see a need to mess with it. It just works for me. Aside from the transcoding for iPod stuff, the last big WMC feature for me was the HDHomeRun, and the only thing that could possibly replace that would be the Hauppauge HD capture and a STB. Maybe. Aside from the HD locals, I don't have a lot of interest in digital cable.

Speaking of the Hauppauge HDR, I wouldn't write it off so readily. The HDHomeRun doesn't natively support WMC, but there's a driver to translate ATSC to QAM tuning. Once WMC has h.264 support for DirectTV, there's no reason why Hauppauge or someone else couldn't do the same thing for the HDR.

I'm not writing it off completely (the Hauppauge card in MC), I expect someone to figure out a way to push, prod, hack it into MC (audio could be a problem after h.264 support is sorted).  When it happens, it will be because of the strength and flexibility of the underlying platform (Windows); MC's lack of extensibility will only slow it down.  The problem is that we need to do that in the first place...

I agree that there's not much compelling content in HD on cable right now, but that's going to change.  At some point in the near future many of the shows that I watch will have a HD version, and I want to be ready for when that happens.  The problem with MC's approach, at least so far, is that if I want [non-ATSC] HD I have no rights.

Hi babgvant,

First of all, as owner of the Windows Media Center Platform and Software Development Kit I very much appreciate feedback on where our API and UI Framework needs attention. I would totally agree there are some rather less than stellar areas (*cough* MSAS) and I'm very hopeful we will be able to address some of those in a future version. I need the details on what is missing or what you need. As always, no promises -- but if I don't have a list from you I can't even begin to address. Perhaps you've sent before? Even so, send it again to charlieo@microsoft.com.

There were many more significant investments in Windows Vista compared to Update Rollup 2 -- the differences are sometimes obvious (new music, picture, video galleries -- and better performance in those for large libraries) and not so obvious to the consumer (the creation of the Windows Media Center Presentation Layer with MCML and underpinnings).

DVD Changer feature and functionality is largely in the hands of OEMs -- I believe they are still around, but demand for them is probably very low.

On the product instability posts you link to -- I've forwarded them to our team. I believe we have a forum on thegreenbutton.com where you can report these type of data quality issues -- if you provide the feedback there is a greater chance we can resolve the problem at some point -- at least with EPG data issues.

We aren't sitting around twiddling our thumbs here in Redmond. Something is cooking -- and it sure smells good. :-0 Good things come to those who wait.

I'm not sure I said my community involvement was lessening -- rather, it's being focused in more constrained ways -- hopefully to the greater good for all. I'm here, aren't I...? :-)

And thanks for the post -- well worth my time to read.

Thanks for stopping by Charlie.  I appreciate that you've take the time to respond.

I don't think I've ever sent feedback on the API directly to you, but I have expressed some areas where I find it in need of attention on the mediacentersandbox (http://discuss.mediacentersandbox.com/forums/permalink/4948/5048/ShowThread.aspx#5048 and http://discuss.mediacentersandbox.com/forums/permalink/4386/4539/ShowThread.aspx#4539 for e.g.).  

Ideally, I'd like to see:

*events - When a file starts playing, when it ends, transport changes, etc.  This is what I use MSAS for now, and it's a poor substitute for the real thing.

*interaction - Currently the only supported way to interact from a background addin is through dialogs, and they can't be user initiated.  In the DTB addin, I use a keyboard hook to allow users to initiate action.  

*information - Currently playing files paths, guide access, current recording requests (all this is available now, just not through supported APIs).

*sharing - As an example I'd like the recording service to act like a broker, where I can request a tuner in a way that doesn't cause MC issues.  I can grab a tuner using DirectShow, but if MC is using it or MC wants it later, bad things happen.  Right now I'm trying to build an application that streams live tv to other MC computers.  Making this work w/o real API support is very kludgey; still doable though :)

I understand that there were significant changes in Vista.  You guys redid the UI, and it's much nicer, but the feature set is almost exactly the same (it's true that the music library is faster, but it's my understanding that this was because of an architectural change with WMP, with MC reaping the externality).  These are great things, but they really are [welcome] refinements more than anything else.  I'll give you the MCML thing, forgot about that...  

The problem with DVD changers, at least for me, was that they didn't fit into the ecosystem.  They are really cool for the one box you have it hooked up to, but extenders didn't get anything and neither did any of the other MC on the network.  Did OEM's have control over that aspect?  I think this architectural constraint is what marginalized the changer more than anything else.  This was meant more as an example of a really cool feature that was implemented in a way that limits its success though.

Both of the stability issues I pointed to have workarounds, so I wasn't really looking for a solution.  I chose them because I knew where they were on TGB; one effects me personally, and the other I wrote a simple utility so that effected users could have a better experience (i.e. they could fast forward and rewind).  I think we are all willing to live with some instability in the platform if the trade off is flexibility and choice.  These were the major reasons I started using MC in the first place vs. Tivo back in the day.  Unfortunately, I see flexibility and choice going down while stability remains about the same (this is post Rollup 2 btw).  

I'll take your word on the good things cooking :)  This might be more my fault than anything else; I missed the chance to sign up for MC beta several months ago.  I didn't make that mistake this go round.

Again, thanks for taking the time.  Cheers.

The links didn't come through, but I had some extended thoughts here:

http://onlydarksets.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/has-media-center-loss-its-critical-mass/

I’ve used a HTPC for about 6 years now, and I’ve run ‘em all - SageTV, Beyond, Myth, GB-PVR, and, of course, Vista Media Center (formerly known as Windows Media Center).  I’ve settled on VMC, because it allows me to record ATSC and NTSC, stream live TV from either to an extender, and, thanks to DVRMSToolbox, skip commercials automatically while watching a show without have to actually cut them out and automatically convert to a format watchable on my Zune (formerly on my WM phone).

Lately, though, it seems that progress has not only halted, but it’s started to slide backwards.  First, as the developer of DTb (babgvant) notes, there have been no major improvements in over 2 years (i.e., since Rollup 2 was released in October 2005).  Second, after upgrading to Vista to take advantage of the one improvement - the UI, I noticed a bug that causes a good percentage of my shows (10-25%) to have an incorrect duration of only 5 minutes.  Again, thanks to babgvant, there is a workaround (see here for latest version and here for steps to use DTb to automate), but Microsoft refuses to release a fix for it (they have their reasons, but I don’t happen to agree with them).  Third, other vendors (particularly Sage) are introducing compelling features that are drawing the development and configuration talent away from VMC.  For example, jelwood (who added native DVR-MS support to mencoder and ffmpeg) has “hung up his green buttoned remote” in favor of Sage (and, with the introduction of silent 1080p hardware extenders for Sage at $199 a pop, I can’t say I disagree with anything he said).

At this point, the only things keeping me with VMC are that I am familiar with how it works and I have a working setup.  If I have to wipe the system clean and start over, I’ll probably re-install MCE 2005 and give Sage a try, and then dual boot to Vista Ultimate.  Unless, of course, MS ups the ante.

Sadly -

I have to agree on many of your points (most sadly)...

I personally feel that the root cause is the fact that no matter how you cut it, eHome is just a piece of the puzzle and that they have to fit within Microsoft's core culture.

They don't have the ability of a company like Sage to constantly put out updates and offer new features.

Also there isn't the sort of devlopment community here as there is over there.

Don't get me wrong, my family and I love VMC, and as wel use it mainly as a DVR/music player we don't have a lot of the issues that "power users" have.

I have to keep my use low so that the SAF/WAF doesn't land me on the couch.

Issues I have -

Lack of a true Softsled - I have 4 Vista Home/Premium computers in the houses and should be able to use tuners on the VMC box to my heart's content.

Pooled tuners - I should be able to have 2 VMC boxes with tuners pull from a main recording list... I know there is the broker, but what happens when an extender wants to use the tuner...

Lack of a HDM playback scheme... I am hoping FIji has this as my wife HATES... thats with the fire of a thousand suns... Power(less)DVD.

Customization of the interface.... come on... every OTHER program in the universe allows at least basic changes. I don't want hacks.. I want real abilities.

Changers - I want a blu-ray changer oh wait... I can't play ONE disc I think we should tackle that first.

Stability - again I reboot my VMC box every night via services... so maybe that solves a lot of my issues.